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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 12, 2023 0:36:48 GMT
You know what? Screw it. With the extra time I have, I made a goddamned vote tracking spreadsheet. Also, let's see if I have this right. Stuff that will be revealed at the end of a Cycle | Stuff that will NOT be revealed at the end of a Cycle | - More of the Public Role List
- How much Energy the employees earned by working
- Whether or not the Keyholder survived to the end of the Cycle
| - How many Apostles remain alive at the end
- A breakdown of how much Energy was earned in each "Day"
- The identity of the Keyholder
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Post by Kachu on Jun 12, 2023 2:34:21 GMT
Yes, you’ve got that all right!
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 12, 2023 3:29:37 GMT
My next action is to start constructing a bar in a shadowy corner of the spooky movie theater, only to be revealed if my first file is purchased!
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Post by Kachu on Jun 12, 2023 14:26:23 GMT
Yeah you know what? Sure. That'll happen.
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 12, 2023 14:43:02 GMT
Awesome!
Y'know, if I was there, I'd have the idea to ask Hephaestus what [CENSORED]'s name actually is, since people are supposed to know, but part of me thinks you'd have her play into the bit as well. I do like this silly dark humor tone this game has so far.
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 14, 2023 12:04:11 GMT
I actually have some thoughts on the info reveal system. Granted, these are based off of not knowing any of the roles in the game, thus not knowing what shenanigans can happen based on that info.
So there are 5 Apostles, right? Let's assume they all have different Sins. There are probably 2 or 3 vanilla Apostles. When it comes time to spend energy, the first purchase reveals a player's Sin, and the second reveals whether they are vanilla or roled. What good does this do for the Employees? Not much, actually. It really benefits the Apostles though. The Apostles no doubt have told each other their Sins and roles. It's redundant to them, so an Apostle-controlled ending will probably see them picking mostly Employees to learn about. They get the Sin? Great. Doesn't really do a bit of good for me unless they reveal my Sin mate, in which case I, and only I, immediately know that person has a power role. But I can't reveal that because then the Apostles know I'm a vanilla Employee and thus eligible to possess the Keyholder role. I'll never survive a single Arc that way. But for the Apostles? If they hit a Sin mate, that's a lot more helpful. If it's the Sin mate of a role, boom, instant candidate for Keyholder. The alternative not only eliminates that person as a Keyholder, but means the Apostles have just found a roled Employee. Either way, they don't need the second purchase.
Now, like I said, this is based on not knowing any roles, and I'm sure there are a few roles which complicate matters. I'll be interested to see how everything interacts! I hope this didn't come across as an indictment of your design, because I'm legitimately curious to see how things play out! And heck, I've taken the role of an observer most of my life, so sitting out this first Arc probably proves more useful than playing in it.
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Post by Kachu on Jun 14, 2023 14:54:11 GMT
Oh no what you're saying makes a lot of sense to me.
I will admit that the game isn't exactly being played how I thought it would, but this is 100% on me for not really realizing a lot of junk haha.
I will at least say that the learning phase isn't super useful right away, because the odds of finding the exact other match to one of the Apostles is slim, since the group is so big. I did see it more as a way for those with roles to independently take action themselves, if they learn something valuable to them. If their role lets them interact with the rest of the characters in a positive way, that is.
Though I don't disagree it's not extremely valuable for the vanilla players. But on the off chance you're another Cycle's keyholder, you would know more about who to and who to not watch, like if you know another vanilla employee, you can keep your eyes on them instead of someone at random, or you can watch someone you suspect has a really strong role, etc.
This whole system definitely needs some work, though!
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 14, 2023 15:23:26 GMT
I mean yeah, you have me and three or four other vanilla Employees who are completely in the dark about everything because we can't do anything at Dusk. I don't know if BF4 had vanillas, but maybe I'll go back and at least read the mechanical part. All I know is because of the three Arcs, role reveals could spell a lot of trouble, and are kinda the antithesis of the Energy system anyway.
Also like I said, I'm sure the Sins have a purpose beyond pairing up players into roled-vanilla groups. But because any info reveal comes so late in the game (after each Arc) it feels like a real drip feed of information, which given the slower pacing due to multiple Arcs, might be intentional. For this first Arc, there's just a good third of the players who will not have any information whatsoever, except what they might be able to deduce from who is killed and who people vote for.
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 19, 2023 6:44:49 GMT
The more and more I think about it, the more I love the work and energy mechanic. I just spent the last hour mathemagically analyzing the possible energy values that could appear (barring shenanigans of course) so I have a pretty good idea of who to suspect and who to clear at certain values, and I can even see myself thinking about some relational analyses, like how (if the final day's workers don't change) a total energy that's a multiple of 4 means Greg and Legion are on the same team, whereas if it's not (but is still even,) they're on opposite teams.
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Post by Kachu on Jun 19, 2023 15:09:52 GMT
Yeah! That's super fun stuff. I'll admit that when I thought of it, I didn't get that deep into it. But I'm glad to see players are using it and thinking about it!
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 23, 2023 6:56:56 GMT
For my next action, I'd like to, um . . . We both want to tell you that you're awesome and Josephine and I are having an amazing time with this game so far. Even if she's traumatized from seeing her close colleagues dying in horrible ways, and it's tough to consider that it's going to happen again.
"It must be tough running a game all by yourself, and I know it can be overwhelming hearing people talk about your game. But I think you're doing a great job, and all we can do is see how the chips fall. I'm enjoying the act of deducing who the Apostles could be, even from the movie theater, even if I can't gain any information myself or influence things at all while we're all split up."
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Post by Kachu on Jun 23, 2023 14:11:08 GMT
Aww
That's really sweet. I'm glad you're still enjoying yourself even though things have been a little rocky!
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 23, 2023 19:12:53 GMT
Of course! This is meant to be a fun activity for everyone, after all. I know I can get passionate about potential balance issues (e.g. my thoughts on Black Fable 2) and a bit bitter about dying first, but I know it doesn't help things to inflict my anger on others. Besides, I think a clear mind allows me to do better in these games. And now that I know I'll live for a bit, maybe I can help get things moving in the right direction where it actually makes a difference, haha.
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 25, 2023 17:07:24 GMT
I'm not going to suggest it publicly as I feel it would be an exploit to my first dusk immunity, but if the Monkey gets lucky and redirects one of the factional kills onto me, will it still fail, despite the fact I wasn't the one targeted? And if so, would you even actually consider that an 'exploit' or just using it to the Employees' advantage? I guess the same could be said for those who are killed this time.
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Post by Kachu on Jun 25, 2023 21:19:10 GMT
No, if that situation happens to occur you'll survive. You cannot die this Dusk, no matter what trickery happens.
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Post by Kachu on Jun 26, 2023 2:46:07 GMT
You've survived this Dusk phase! Finally!!
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 26, 2023 2:55:18 GMT
Woohoo! I succeeded on a 100% probability roll! I'm so good at this game!!
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 26, 2023 4:25:37 GMT
Yo! I have some more questions about how the different powers work. Like in most Mafia-style games, the order of operations is (Cat/Lamb/Fox's) Blocks->(Parrot's) Copy->(Monkey's) Redirect->(Fox's/Snake's) Protects->Kills->Information, right? Additional questions about the Parrot: - Can the ability it copies be a factional one? (e.g. the Keyholder's Lookout or the Apostle's kill)
- If the Parrot targets the Monkey, does nothing happen since they need to visit two people? I guess I'd headcanon that the Parrot makes the Monkey switch with the Monkey for no effect. It's quite silly.
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Post by Kachu on Jun 26, 2023 15:55:26 GMT
The order of operations is something like that, but not 100% exactly in that order. Kills are always the last thing that happen, but a player won't get any information if they're dead.
The Parrot acts super fast so it can pre-emptively block a blocker, so I can avoid the issue of having to deal with people blocking each other at the same time.
The Lamb has no action, it just nullifies actions performed onto it.
If the Parrot targets the Monkey, it will swap all actions from the Monkey's player onto the Monkey itself. (Though I might like your idea on how that works better)
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 26, 2023 16:39:16 GMT
Ah, I see, so the Parrot outspeeds everybody with an active ability, at least.
What happens if the Parrot targets the Lamb? Is the Parrot's action nullified or do they become another Lamb for that Dusk?
Also, you didn't answer my question on whether or not the Parrot can copy factional abilities. Did you forget or can you not answer that? It's no trouble either way.
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Post by Kachu on Jun 26, 2023 17:33:58 GMT
I think I forgot! No the Parrot does not copy the factional abilities.
If the Parrot targets the Lamb, nothing happens (but the Lamb will know they visited).
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 26, 2023 23:17:17 GMT
Same with the Monkey targeting the Lamb with either of its visits, I assume? Also, the Monkey is a one-way redirector, not a switcher, right? In other words, a->b, but not b->a.
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Post by Kachu on Jun 27, 2023 0:40:10 GMT
Monkey is one way!
Since the Lamb cancels everything, the Monkey’s actions will fail if it targets them. Even as either half of the equation. It effectively Roleblocks anything that visits it, in any capacity.
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 27, 2023 17:57:17 GMT
Hehe, thanks for answering my questions so diligently.
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 27, 2023 21:43:44 GMT
For my next action, I'm going to hope and pray that I don't find out what the "spooky movie theater" for this game has become, i.e. I stay alive.
Would you like any help with my part of the work flavor post since it looks like I'll be one of the participants this time, or you think you have some ideas already?
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Post by Kachu on Jun 28, 2023 14:22:00 GMT
I actually have nothing and always write them as soon as I have to start writing them haha. Though if you wanted something specific I could put it in!
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 28, 2023 14:52:04 GMT
Nah, I'll leave it up to you. I think I've given you enough of an idea what Josephine is good at, and I trust your writing skill. If you do have difficulties, though, let me know!
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Post by Kachu on Jun 28, 2023 15:32:53 GMT
To be honest it's less of a struggle making Employees do the work and it's more struggling to pick which Abnormalities to use haha
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Post by JoyTheBard (Slezak) on Jun 28, 2023 17:33:02 GMT
Well, there are obvious ones you could bring back like Forsaken Murderer or Happy Teddy Bear, or you could introduce other official ones like Old Lady or A Shy Kid (Laetitia), or if you give me some time, I could try to come up with an original Abnormality . . . .
Earlier I actually had an idea for one that's way too fitting for Josephine that I called DSM-XVII (based on the real-world DSM-V (latest version) which every psychology-based occupation uses for information about mental disorders and whatnot.) Except the Abnormality would list things like 'love', 'compassion', and 'disobedience'; perhaps things an AI or advanced lifeform might deem 'unnecessary' or 'disorderly'. I dunno. Initial ideas usually run the gamut from 'maybe this could work with some refining' to 'downright horrible', haha.
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Post by Kachu on Jun 29, 2023 6:58:55 GMT
Unfortunately you happened to get a somewhat lame work like everyone else haha. I got caught up in some things and ended up writing this all super late! Sorry for not catching this sooner. If you work again though I'll bring back one of the nice older ones!
Also, you didn't die! Highscore!!
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